There is no way Craig Kimbrel should be considered for the Hall (especially if no Wagner). He got off to a great start with Atlanta. There was a four-year stretch early on where I think many pundits thought that Kimbrel was going to be the next great closer, but then after he left the Braves, he didn't lose it, but there was never the same aura about him. I've seen Kimbrel blow more big games over the last five or so years, that for me, he has fallen off the all-time list for closers.
Great closers like Rivera were consistent for the entirety of their careers. Kimbrel has had more than a couple dud seasons. Take 2024 as an example with his 5.33 ERA (and that's not even his worst year).
Closers like Clase could still be great over the long haul, but like you said, so often now, they are put into situations where your prototypical closer would rarely be years ago. To be a Hall of Fame closer, you need to be great, or at the very least good, for nearly every season for at least 10 years. Wagner was certainly good to great in every season he pitched for 16 years, except for his 2000 season in which he had a 6+ ERA in just 27.2 frames. Show me another year in which the southpaw wasn't at least respectable. Billy is the new bar for reliever HOF. If he doesn't get in, then no one else should at that position.
That is fine by me. MLB has already lowered the bar enough for players by saying it is ok to do less and play less and to make up for it, we'll adjust the stats to make you look better..ala stats like WAR and OPS+. Instead of making players today earn it the same way every other generation had to by playing every day even if a little banged up. Earn your way to the Hall by staying on the field and playing well. The constant adjusting to make players look better than their actual, non-theoretical numbers are, is a slap in the face to previous generations.
And these players today get paid more than ever, but sadly, most of them play less often as well. With closers..if no one can handle 10 great years anymore, then it just means, no one can handle 10 great years anymore and no HOF for you. If that is the era we are in, then so be it. Until pitchers pick it up and pitch better and more frequently, I am fine with keeping the HOF entrants at a minimum.
Thanks for your thoughts Justin. I have a hard time with Kimbrel as well and I really don't see him being that much different than Kenley Jansen. As much as I am Met fan and like John Franco he didn't quite make the grade either. Yet if we go this way there won't be any more closers - or should we now call them 'high-leverage relievers' getting the nod!
There is no way Craig Kimbrel should be considered for the Hall (especially if no Wagner). He got off to a great start with Atlanta. There was a four-year stretch early on where I think many pundits thought that Kimbrel was going to be the next great closer, but then after he left the Braves, he didn't lose it, but there was never the same aura about him. I've seen Kimbrel blow more big games over the last five or so years, that for me, he has fallen off the all-time list for closers.
Great closers like Rivera were consistent for the entirety of their careers. Kimbrel has had more than a couple dud seasons. Take 2024 as an example with his 5.33 ERA (and that's not even his worst year).
Closers like Clase could still be great over the long haul, but like you said, so often now, they are put into situations where your prototypical closer would rarely be years ago. To be a Hall of Fame closer, you need to be great, or at the very least good, for nearly every season for at least 10 years. Wagner was certainly good to great in every season he pitched for 16 years, except for his 2000 season in which he had a 6+ ERA in just 27.2 frames. Show me another year in which the southpaw wasn't at least respectable. Billy is the new bar for reliever HOF. If he doesn't get in, then no one else should at that position.
That is fine by me. MLB has already lowered the bar enough for players by saying it is ok to do less and play less and to make up for it, we'll adjust the stats to make you look better..ala stats like WAR and OPS+. Instead of making players today earn it the same way every other generation had to by playing every day even if a little banged up. Earn your way to the Hall by staying on the field and playing well. The constant adjusting to make players look better than their actual, non-theoretical numbers are, is a slap in the face to previous generations.
And these players today get paid more than ever, but sadly, most of them play less often as well. With closers..if no one can handle 10 great years anymore, then it just means, no one can handle 10 great years anymore and no HOF for you. If that is the era we are in, then so be it. Until pitchers pick it up and pitch better and more frequently, I am fine with keeping the HOF entrants at a minimum.
Thanks for your thoughts Justin. I have a hard time with Kimbrel as well and I really don't see him being that much different than Kenley Jansen. As much as I am Met fan and like John Franco he didn't quite make the grade either. Yet if we go this way there won't be any more closers - or should we now call them 'high-leverage relievers' getting the nod!